Home > Nokia N8 Helps Nokia Dwarf Apple iPhone 4 Sales: Your Thoughts
Nokia N8 Helps Nokia Dwarf Apple iPhone 4 Sales: Your Thoughts
By Phil Barker on December 10,
 2010 at 00:00,

A few days ago, we wrote about how Nokia was doing in comparison to Apple and the iPhone 4. It was in response to a piece about sales of the Nokia N8 and the Apple iPhone 4, where we felt the need to point out that the Nokia N8 is on track to become one of Nokia's best selling smartphones ever. Our piece generated lots of comments from you guys – join us after the cut to find out more...

The Nokia N8 is following in the footsteps of the Nokia 5800, which has sold over 13 million units, and is firmly on track to become one of Nokia's best selling handsets ever. Nokia estimates that 2.5 million Nokia N8's will be sold by the end of Christmas, with around 11.5 million sold by the end of next year.

Despite this, an article in V3.co.uk pointed out that sales of the Nokia N8 are “underwhelming”, highlighting the success of the Apple iPhone 4 as a reason why it thinks Nokia's targets simply aren't good enough.

We disagreed, as the Nokia N8 is only a small part of Nokia's armoury, with tens of other models to suit all needs and budgets. In fact, with an amazing 432 million handsets sold last year, we still think the fact the Apple iPhone 4 sells more than the Nokia N8 is completely irrelevant.

Nokia N8 Helps Nokia to Dwarf Apple iPhone 4 Sales

Our piece generated lots of interest, with lots of comments from you guys.

Standing up for V3, OverDoinIt stated:

“The V3 article wasn’t intending on making a case for Apple overcoming any one competitor in the cell phone industry, it wasn’t only pointing out rivalling models within the smartphone slice of the industry, a very narrow assessment that does not appear on the same radar you’re using intending on showing up V3′s “oversight.” It was a simple assessment of two rivalling models.”

While that's fair enough, we still feel that the different business models are a key point, and something that should have been highlighted in the original article. As we stated:

“It’s completely irrelevant that the Nokia N8 is outsold by the iPhone – that’s the whole point. It’s one product, Nokia will have a whole range of Symbian ^3 devices at different price points, to suit different types of user and budget. Apple NEEDS the iPhone to sell in large numbers, as it doesn’t have any other foothold in the smartphone market.

In favour of the Apple iPhone 4, reader Wally pointed out “In it’s first 200 days on sale the iPhone sold 4 million after it’s first initial introduction. These numbers are apple’s number”. He went on to say “That is the only valid metric the N8 should be compared to”.

Quick to respond, Dandilion stated:

“200 days = almost 7 months. No sweat for just N8 alone to achieve 4 million in 7 months. Then add to that C7, E7, X7, C6-01, N900 etc to get a fair comparison.”

In something akin to a tennis match, Huh? stands up in favour of Apple:

“I beg your pardon? Morgan Stanley research shows the iPhone is outselling the N8 six to one in Europe and here in Australia they have just been overtaken by Apple for the first time ever in number of sales. I’ve read some blatant fanboism in my time but this article is so much like a paid advertisement it should have a tagline.”

Once again, the idea of different business models, with tens of handsets to suit all markets, budgets and requirements has been overlooked, so we'll give the last word to Hmmm, who sums up Nokia's sales model perfectly:

“A person walks into a apple store and looks at the one phone available and says do I want to spend $1000. and buys one adding to apples total sales

A person walks into a store selling Nokia phones and says hmmm, $650 for a N8, and the sales person in "Europe" says we have lots of other smartphones from Nokia which may suit you better.

So they purchase one for their needs and BUDGET - something not possible with apple (Dont bother with the plan excuse we all know you pay for it one way or another).

And so the sale goes to one of the many Models Nokia provides.”

Simple! Do you agree? Or do you think the Nokia N8 has to outsell the Apple iPhone 4 to be considered a success? Leave a comment below and let us know what you think.

Tags: Apple Apple iPhone 4 iPhone 4 N8 Nokia Nokia N8 Symbian ^3
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  • 0batman

    As someone is quoted as saying, a simple sales aggregate of the top 2-3 most high end current Nokia devices can be taken to arrive at a rough sales number. This may then be compared to the corresponding period’s iPhone sales. It should be a reasonably acceptable comparison.

  • andy burgin

    Nokia N8 is a much better value phone than the iPhone4,the Younger generation will pay anything for the iPhones to just to show off to people that they are wealthy,but do not buy phones nowdays on its functions,that were the N8 is a much better value,you could buy 1 iPhone4 an get 2 Nokia N8s,Apple are just Ripping people of with Mobiles an Laptops an must be laughing at the people who are just throwing to much money away,but Steve at Apple still dresses like a Tramp

  • John

    “Nokia estimates that 2.5 million Nokia N8′s will be sold by the end of Christmas, with around 11.5 million sold by the end of next year.”

    This estimation is from the Morgan Stanley. About sales Nokia has said in July:

    http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/22/opk-more-than-50-million-symbian3-devices/

    “Starting with the N8, Nokia aims to ship more than 50 million Symbian^3 devices in the coming years, alongside devices using other versions of the Symbian OS.

    That was the message from Nokia CEO Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo and CFO Timo Ihamuotila, talking with industry analysts today.”

    Normally phone life cycle is 1.5-2 years. This was before they announced to cancel all lay-offs in August and hired more people and temps during autumn.

    Some sources have claimed that the pre-order amount of the Nokia N8 was 5 million and they have already sold 17 million of them during this year. Their daily demand is said to be 200 000 while factories can produce only 100 000/day.

  • user

    I’m with you. Nokia don’t know how to make a hype. But they do know how to make mobile phones.
    Have you seen that in month or so nokia have done a lot of new stuff for nokia phones OS. Many of those are something that Steve would call Amazing, revolutionary etc…

  • LaW

    Nokia are the king of variety, IE n8 for camera and HDMi, E7 for big screen qwerty lovers, C7 and C6-01 for sleek nice design and average to high end joe, upcoming X7 for game lovers, and the N9 for the uber geek tech freaks, however thats becoming all of us these days which is why n9 is planned to be massed marketed much more than n900 ever was.

    its all up to meego and symbian 4, nokia have and always will have hardware satisfactoy, so its up to their OS, IE look at apple, Shit hnardware if u consider they cant make a proper mobile reciver in the iphone 4, but they have a good OS, i dont use iphone but i have ipad, ipod touch and ipod classic.
    In the end iphone have the iOS that suits many people since its simple and easy, and nokia have the hardware of phone varieties that suits many/ most people. So nokia get your OS with meego especially working and u will rule again!

  • marioz

    i was disappointed from N86 8MP which was supposed to be an excellent one.
    Most applications don’t run or meaningless.
    all traffic locations etc.. don’t run.
    GPS the only good application.
    you want to listen to news, java is not supported.
    etc…………..
    so when i read about N8 i think the same as above.

    i am shifting to IPhone and get relaxed.
    nokia is trying its best to follow smarts but i don’t know why it is not succeeding.

    for me after so many nokias i am going iphone 4….

    thousands of applications.. not few !

    sorry.

  • http://web.me.com/mart_hill Martin Hill

    Err, not sure where that 4 million iPhones sold in 200 days came from. Try 1.7 million in 3 days and 14.1 million in 3 months. The N8 is well and truly eclipsed.

    However, sheer unit sales of all Nokia smartphones combined means absolutely nothing for Nokia as it has managed to translate into succes in all the other market metrics.

    Noklia’s majority unit sales share has not lead to greater profit share (Apple holds 48% of the entire cell phone industry’s profit compared to Nokia’s 17% and Samsung’s 2%).

    It has also not lead to a greater share of the hardware peripheral market (The iPod/iPhone dock and steering wheel integration is standard or an option in over 70% of all new cars, 99% of all audio systems, GPS amplifiers, car kit docks, aircraft docks etc).

    And it has certainly not lead to more software with Apple holding the lead with over 300,000 curated apps vs 28,000 Ovi “apps” scattered over every OS from Series 4 to Java ME to Flash to Symbian so any one phone user has access to considerably less. Not to mention that Nokia’s numbers also include widgets, ringtones, wallpapers and themes, whereas Apple’s total is all apps.

    iOS continues to be far more lucrative for developers. The online Ovi store is now managing 3 million downloads a day. The iOS App Store gets 17.3 million per day (1 billion every 2 months) and accelerating.

    No, not only has the iPhone 4 completely surpassed the sales of the N8 and any other Nokia smartphone model, but it has also resulted in far greater marketshare in all the other important metrics – developer profit share, manufacturer profit share, number of developers, app numbers, app downloads, media download sales, 3rd party hardware peripheral sales, etc.

    I’m afraid Nokia is a Titanic that has hit Apple’s iceberg and then rebounded off into Android’s minefield.

    -Mart

  • http://web.me.com/mart_hill Martin Hill

    Oops, my second paragraph was meant to read:
    “However, sheer unit sales of all Nokia smartphones combined means absolutely nothing for Nokia as it has *not* managed to translate that into success in all the other important market metrics.”

    -Mart

  • Nokian insinööri

    The N8 estimate, 2,5 million Q4/2010 and 11,5 million by the end of 2011 was made by a Morgan Stanley analyst by a query on european mobile dealers that sell _both_ iPhone and N8. Thus …

    1) the estimate is not one of Nokias, Nokia has given no figures
    2) the estimate is too low, simply because there are vastly more dealers for N8 than iPhone, the query included all iPhone sales in Europe but only a fraction of corresponding N8 sales.

    The true number for S^3 sales 2010 is certainly a two digit figure, probably between 20-30 million. Half of this might be N8′s.

  • Vulcan

    Nokia has not given any own estimates for N8 sales in Q4 (so they have not given any 2,5 million units estimate as written in the story). Their only guidance has been to sell in total over 50 million Symbian^3 devices in “lifetime” of the product, and that estimate was said to be “very conservative” and given at a time when Symbian^4 was to come in late Q2 / 2011. So the original over 50 million is to be spread over 3 or 4 quarters, and they expected to sell more than that and gave this figure as a “conservative guidance”.

    After that Nokia´s Tapani Kaskinen has stated, that N8 sales have been considerably higher than expected and “not only in Finland but in all of the countries it is for sale”. Nokia started selling N8 in 40 countries and over 100 mobile operators + the other channels like electorinic / department stores, computer shops etc.

  • Vulcan

    @Martin Hill:
    You could not be much more wrong. Nokia Ovi Store daily downloads are rapidly rising, done that the whole year and will at current speed be more than Apple´s store downloads in 5 months or less. The growth at Nokia Ovi Store has been +20% each month over previous, but now it was +25% in last 3 weeks. That gives about 15 times as many downloads in 12 months.

    I does not matter how many apps the Apple store has. Who needs 65 different Notepad applications in one device? Many of those apps are already installed in Nokia devices, no need to seek a usable app.

    If Nokia is not big in America, it does not tell the whole truth. There are bigger markets globally, and Nokia is big in every other market but not in the USA. And the USA market share will boost also in 2011 for many reasons. You will see. Nokia is biggest, and will be bigger (in market share) in 2011 than it was in 2010.

  • http://web.me.com/mart_hill Martin Hill

    @Vulcan,
    So are you saying most of Ovi’s downloads are not ringtones, wallpapers and themes compared to the iOS App Store where they are all apps?

    Or are you denying Nokia’s press release that said that the Ovi Store was only doing 3 million downloads per day which was only one sixth of iOS App Store downloads at that time? The grand total for iOS apps was 7 billion since July 2008, but 2 billion of that was in June-October this year meaning the growth for Apple is also exponential.

    It does matter how many apps an App Store has if you’re going to fill all the regional, specialist and niche needs across that planet.

    Of course quality matters as much as quantity and iOS has that in spades compared to the lowest common denominator Symbian, Java ME and Flash games of the Ovi Store. You just need to look at top tier games to get an idea of how rich the iOS ecosystem is. Here is a comparison with the second largest App Store – the Android Marketplace:

    Big name game titles released by all of the largest mobile game publishers:
    * Gameloft – 136 games for iOS vs 12 games for Android
    * Capcom Mobile – 27 games for iOS vs 4 games for Android
    * EA – 74 games for iOS vs 0 for Android
    * Ngmoco – 42 games for iOS vs 0 for Android
    * Pangea – 24 games for iOS vs 0 for Android
    * Popcap – 5 for iOS vs 0 for Android
    * ID’s new game Rage is only being produced for iOS

    And total number of games:

    iOS = 38,000 vs Android = 13,000

    That means that there are more games for iOS than the combined total (28,000) of wallpapers, themes, ringtones, Java ME apps, Flash Apps, Symbian apps etc in the entire Ovi store.

    Also, it is not just in the USA where the iPhone beats Nokia in smartphones. Here in Australia, the iPhone has now taken the lead to become the most popular smartphone with 36.5 per cent of the smartphone market, eclipsing Nokia’s 30.5 per cent share according to IDC.

    -Mart

  • ak

    @martin.. without any reliable source your statements are just another pathetic fanboys idiotic comments to justify himself of the fact that he had just spend a grand on a kangaroo dropping.

  • Simon

    @martin
    Comparing the iOS’s app store, which has been marketed properly since the original iPhone came out several years ago, to Ovi, which, lets face it, has only really started to become a serious platform since the N8 came out, is clearly going to give a one sided perspective.

    If you are a software manufacturer, you know today that most iPhone people are ready to download apps, where as most Symbian users just have a (fairly basic) phone. This has now changed, and it will refelct eventually into number of apps for Ovi.

    As a SW developer, you want to attack the best market. At the moment that is iOS, then Android, then Symbian3 (Ovi is at least smart enough not to try and sell you apps that your phone doesn’t support, but it could also be bloating numbers). In the future it will be the other way round, Android then Symbian3 then iOS. It makes sense to port your apps across all 3 OSs if possible, and you can’t say that Google and Nokia dont have the financial clout to get some proper games dev on board (X9 will change that).

    I love the iPhone, mainly for what it has forced the market to do. It has caused a mainstream adoption of proper smart phones, and force other manufacturers to appear with competing GOOD gui’s. Symbian 3 isn’t there yet, but I hope with some updates it will be. Then we will have a real competition on our hands, which is good for consumers. :D

  • lucas

    Ultimately, the fact that the apple may ‘outsell’ the nokia is neither here nor there. Apple may have a better marketing strategy for a poorer product. It happens. and apple are now targeting the european/asian markets which they didnt before. so their sales will obviously increase vis a vis the nokia which have always been worldwide anyway.

    the fact is that pound for pound the nokia is a better phone for less money. the apple being the only one of its range will not take sales from other apple products whereas for example the nokia N8 and E7 are almost on par. In fact the E7 will also be a viable alternative to the apple i phone 4.

    Finally part of apple iphone sales are driven by ‘snob’ value not quality. Its a quiet part of their marketing strategy and hence the price. we all know that. so. there you have it. For practical buyers there is no comparisan. Nokia N8 wins hands down….

  • Mike

    To me those are impressive numbers. At my company I try not to use direct comparison of anything to define a success. I tell my engineers that technically selling one unit, a product is a success because a consumer wanted it. The possible bloatness of the company/division shouldn’t hinder that simple definition. However, I look forward to Meego because it is a lot closer to what I want in my hand — A mobile Linux computer. Android is nice, but I really hate Java.